Separately, it's worth addressing the fact that developer conversations do take place on the fediverse. It happens organically all the time, because like I said above, all activitypub developers are on the fediverse.

The problem here is that the de facto implementation is Mastodon, and the conversations taking place on Mastodon are by design ephemeral.

Arguments can be made that Mastodon does keep a copy of all of the conversations, and one need only look for them, but they're buried in such a way as to be essentially lost to history forever. You've probably tried looking for something you or someone else said, and started scrolling a profile feed endlessly looking for it... don't lie, we've all done it.

This is where we can throw technology at the problem... by building really good search, we can mitigate some of these losses. However this relies on people to actually use the search functionality, which is hard to guarantee

Another solution is proper categorization of content... and this is where you'll say I have a bias. I certainly do! I'm a purveyor of forum software... the age old way of communicating online where stuff gets categorized and organized topically. To add this layer of human organization on top gets us that much closer to ensuring that the discussions we have and the discoveries we make are not simply lost to time, but preserved for future developers to re-discover and re-consume.

cc fediversereport@mastodon.social julian@activitypub.space

Hi @julian,
IMO the problem is a social one, the proposed solutions technical. Won't do.

IMO it takes social activities, like conferences, to build bonds. Online that's orders of magnitude more time-consuming, frustrating and brittle.

#SocialHub, as I knew it, lacked interest of the 'big shots'. Their disinterest rendered it a side-show.

mro@digitalcourage.social I think you're completely right. I've had the privilege of attending two in-person conferences related to ActivityPub—FOSDEM and Fedicon—and the difference between them and collaborating online is staggering.

I'm not so sure about the assertion that "big shots" weren't on SocialHub as a cause of it being sidelined. While the big names (e.g. Evan from SWF, Renaud/Claire from Mastodon, Nutomic from Lemmy, to name a few) don't post there often, they do show up from time to time, which goes to show that something like a forum does have a place in online collaboration.

Perhaps it is a question of whether there is enough derived value from participating in SocialHub.

I will say this, though, that I have far too much going on with my life (work, family, hobbies, more work) to dedicate the appropriate mind-share to yet another social website. I happen to participate in SocialHub discussions purely because I can do so from my own ActivityPub-enabled software. Occasionally I visit the site directly when I am directly mentioned (and later emailed about it.)

@julian Lemmy is also guilty of this despite being a federated forum. Mbin is even worse, having their support/development channel on Matrix only and apparently no presence at all on the fediverse.

torsi@torsi.ca fwiw I believe melroy@kbin.melroy.org (or melroy@mastodon.melroy.org on Mastodon) is present so they're not completely absent from the fediverse

@julian @mro

> Perhaps it is a question of whether there is enough derived value from participating in SocialHub.

This is key imho. In a grassroots environment everyone is driven by self-interested motives that provide intrinsic motivation to participate and collaborate. This is just natural, yet insufficiently accounted for in our ecosystem-wide dev processes.

Also perception of value can be much improved e.g. in making clear *how* a FOSS project depends on its foundational technology base.

@julian @torsi @melroy@kbin.melroy.org we are not. Also @BentiGorlich is here.

@torsi @julian to our credit Mbin is still a very small project and a continuation on the legacy of kbin.

It's true that we mainly are active on github & matrix, since kbin was also mainly active on matrix.

Anyhow, I will look more info socialhub. But don't expect miracles .

@torsi@torsi.ca Melroy and myself (main Mbin devs) are of course present on the fediverse across multiple accounts and platforms. Additionally there are magazines for discussing mbin related issues and questions:

• !AskMbin@thebrainbin.org
• !mbinReleases@gehirneimer.de
• !AskMbin@fedia.io
• !mbinmeta@gehirneimer.de

The channels do net get used that regularly, but I am doing my best to respond to every post in them

bentigorlich@gehirneimer.de melroy@mastodon.melroy.org see that's the thing... You guys are active, and on the fediverse, but not on the subset of the fediverse that smallcircles@social.coop sees... the Threadiverse!

... and why wouldn't you be on the threadiverse, it's more relevant to mbin than the microblogiverse.

That disconnect is something I'm hoping to better address very soon.

julian@activitypub.space